as capital gains, and even the new deal -- >> bob, here is the problem with what you're saying -- >> steve, you'll agree with me on this, i'm sure. >> here is the problem, we agree we should get rid of all of these loopholes. this is interesting, erin, that when mitt romney talked about this in the campaign of putting a cap on these deductions, it was the democrats, people like robert reich, maybe not you personally, but people of your philosophy who said we can't do that. here's the point -- >> we actually do believe -- >> what? >> i don't know why democrats aren't in favor of putting a cap on those deductions. i'm saying if we're going to get something done on this, erin, what is going to have to happen is democrats are going to have to agree to reduce the tax rates in exchange for getting rid of the loopholes. >> or we're going to have to raise taxes on everyone, as npr ran the numbers. if you raise the numbers on 8% of the middle class, you raise more money than by taxes millionaires. >> there the question is how do you define the beginning and middle of the middle class. is it $75,000